Enable the flipped classroom with an experience for teachers from A to Z
Guest: Robin Guerit, the co-founder and Chief Experience Officer of Flowchase, based in Belgium. The company is helping English learners speak confidently through blended-learning tools for pronunciation instruction. They are working with both higher education institutions and corporations.
Frank Albert Coates
So could you tell me more about the company, your history and where you're at right now?
Robin Guerit
Flowchase is a blended learning tool. We help English teachers personalize the way they teach pronunciation with AI technology. The students use our mobile app, and the teachers also have our teacher textbooks so they can integrate the tool easily in their class. We work on an advanced technology to give instant feedback, but we also create an experience for the teacher. So it's easy for them to integrate the tool and to change their traditional pronunciation instruction. Now we are six in the team, six amazing people. And we fundraised for the first time in December 2020. And now it's been 18 months, and we're working with more than 25 higher education institutions, in Belgium, in Spain and in France. And we are starting to work with corporations too.
Frank Albert Coates
So you have some traction, and you are in several segments and markets. Anything that you want to say about where you are going next?
Robin Guerit
I think we will focus to do better and consolidate. That's mainly the thing we want to do. Because we have a lot of traction from different segments, like even secondary schools, or freelance teachers. So we need to focus now on higher education and cooperation to really fit our product and content to the use case. But it is also exciting to think about the vision we have for Flowchase to really create new content and help students in the end. Today we are in Europe, and the goal will be to be the main leader in Europe to help teachers and learners on their speaking skills. But obviously, with the digital language market, there's also potential in other countries. So step by step we will be there maybe in some countries in Asia and in Latin America.
Frank Albert Coates
Maybe we can take a step back to talk a bit about history. So why did you create Flowchase? What were the pain points that made you go into that direction?
Robin Guerit
Our story is mainly how I met Zoé Broisson who is the CEO, and co-founder of Flowchase. So she is a linguist. And she lived in Australia for six years. And she had a problem with her pronunciation at the beginning when she went there. She helped hundreds of students and even researchers to be more confident in the way they speak English because they usually have great levels in grammar and vocabulary. When she was in Australia, she felt that there was a problem with spoken skills in general. And when she came back to Belgium, she found that the problem was everywhere. It was mainly in the way we teach pronunciation today, because there are less resources on pronunciation instructions. But also there is a limit with the class. The teacher can't really give personalized feedback to their students, because they are too many in class. And they have limited time. But, also they don't have the same problems so they need really personalized and individual feedback to get better.
The teacher can't really give personalized feedback to their students, because they are too many in class. And they have limited time. But, also they don't have the same problems so they need really personalized and individual feedback to get better.
And that's where we met with Zoey - it was in a research project at UCL Leuven, in Belgium. So at the university, we were still masters students. And we just took over the project, because we worked with scientists at the University, but they didn't go outside the lab. So at that time, we just went to see teachers, head of institutions and students to better understand the context and the problem. And then we just built our first prototype. The first time we tested the first prototype was in March 2020. And that was really interesting, because it was at the beginning of COVID pandemic and we had amazingly good feedback from the students. It was only 200 students. But it was really good to understand that the tool will help the students on one side because they could individually head home, work on their pronunciation with our technology. But also we saw the impact on the way teachers teach - especially with tools like us, like digital tools in the pandemic crisis. And so we continue to work on that and to build our first startup in EdTech. So that's the reason why we are here now and that we believe in Flowchase.
Frank Albert Coates
The language learning market is massive. Who do you see as your principal competitors?
Robin Guerit
The key ones usually don't have a lot of things on pronunciation. And it's always the feedback you can see from their users. It's like, yeah, I know like in writing skills and everything I’m okay. But in general, for my work, I need my spoken skills to be better, because 60% of my work is in English with clients. So the competitors are usually working on speech recognition technology, so they have activities where users can read one word or one sentence, and they give one percentage. So it's like; I read I would like to go to Ireland. Okay, you got 60% nativeness, go on. As researchers and during the spin off project, we saw that it was not that pedagogical to have that approach, because you can't give enough information or tips to students to be better.
So the competitors are usually working on speech recognition technology, so they have activities where users can read one word or one sentence, and they give one percentage…we saw that it was not that pedagogical to have that approach, because you can't give enough information or tips to students to be better.
So that was our first goal to work on that. And mainly our competitors that didn't invest in that was for instance Babel and 7speaking and other big tools that were used by higher institutions. And the goal was really to work on that niche, and to really understand how we could help students and teachers. So that's why we didn't go first on b2c. Because we really value working with teachers for mainly retention motivation, but also because we think that we can really help and compliment any teacher in any pedagogical context. And that's where we saw our value in the EdTech sector. So in b2b, there's not a lot of competitors on pronunciation. There's a big one on pronunciation in general is ELSA Speak. I really like their projects, but we don't have the same approach because we work closely with teachers. And we have the mobile apps, yes, but we also have our service for teachers and we customize content for teachers. That's where we are different.
Frank Albert Coates
Maybe you have said it then already; what's your secret sauce? And how will you succeed?
Robin Guerit
So I didn't describe the technology. It's a deep learning technology where we can really align and detect errors in the voices of the students, and then give personalized feedback. So in the app, it's really in two seconds, you will get feedback cards that really tell you where your mistakes are, and how you can improve those. So that's really like text, visual audio. So that's what we do. For now it's only in English, but our technology is now getting better. And I think in the next years, we will go on different languages. So that's the first thing. That's our secret sauce. Because we work closely with our engineer, the linguist, me as the interaction designer, our CTO, obviously, or developer. We work together to give an instant value to the students. But also working with the team in institutions. We really created a service for teachers. So when they start with us they have a workshop so they can understand everything in the project to introduce the tool to their students. They have everything ready in their toolbox where they can collect data, see the progress reports, but also they have ready to use presentations to show data and introduce some concepts to their students.
We really created a service for teachers. So when they start with us they have a workshop so they can understand everything in the project to introduce the tool to their students. They have everything ready in their toolbox…they usually use Flowchase as a flipped classroom approach.
We have a teacher textbook, because they usually use Flowchase as a flipped classroom approach. So the student uses the app at home, but the teacher uses some of our ready to use activities in the teacher textbooks. So the goal was really to think about the experience for the teachers so they don't have anything to create and to prepare.
The goal was really to think about the experience for the teachers so they don't have anything to create and to prepare… Flowchase is really implemented from A to Z in the way they teach.
That was our goal. And I think we are the only ones doing that right now. And that's why we collect a lot of feedback from teachers because we know we can do better. And even now we have feedback where we create evaluation tests or evaluation questions they can put in their exam. So it goes until that point where they can include questions in their exam for the students. So Flowchase is really implemented from A to Z in the way they teach.
Frank Albert Coates
So if you look at the last couple of years with Flowchase, what's been your biggest challenge? And how did you solve it?
Robin Guerit
Two things. The first thing is the sales cycle. We have a good service, but it's always difficult to work with higher institutions and to get the budget every year. So what we do is mainly that we do a pilot program. And with that first six months of the first year, we decide going further into the institution and work with the institution to have a bigger impact with the students. So the sales cycle is really difficult. So we work closely with them and collect a lot of data so we can show to the institution that we have value. And that's the main problem in the EdTech sector that you need to show evidence. And I'm really into that with Flowchase that we really have an evidence driven approach. So that can show in the end that we have an impact on their students and on their pedagogical team.
The sales cycle is really difficult. So we work closely with them and collect a lot of data so we can show to the institution that we have value. And that's the main problem in the EdTech sector that you need to show evidence. And I'm really into that with Flowchase that we really have an evidence driven approach. So that can show in the end that we have an impact on their students and on their pedagogical team.
So that's the first challenge. The other one is always the team, because you need the best people in your team to grow the company. So we are always looking for new talent.
Frank Albert Coates
Good challenges. And if you look forwards to the next 6 to 12 months or even longer, what's on top of your mind, what's the biggest thing that keeps you up at night?
Robin Guerit
That's a good question. We are a tool where we create content for teachers. So we are not like an empty box where they can create everything. I think the challenge will be to create good content for the right people. And to do that we partner with a lot of people. But the challenge will be to partner with maybe other companies like publishers, so we can really find ways to create more content. Because now that's mainly our pain point for the vision. We need to create more content to really have adaptive learning, so we can recommend activities to learners.
The challenge will be to partner with maybe other companies like publishers, so we can really find ways to create more content. … We need to create more content to really have adaptive learning, so we can recommend activities to learners.
So for now, we don't do that. We do a lot of things, but we don't yet do adaptive learning. So that's going to be our challenge in the next couple of years.
Frank Albert Coates
Good challenge! And also, when you look at the last couple of years with Flowchase, have there been any resources or specific things that have helped you a lot along the way?
Robin Guerit
There's two things. One is a UX design book. I am a UX designer, so that's why. It’s a book from Carine Landman who is a UX researcher. That's a book that could be used more in the EdTech sector, because it helps you create a tool with a user centered approach. And that's really important in EdTech to understand the impact of the tool but also to create the best experience for teachers and students.
…it helps you create a tool with a user centered approach. And that's really important in EdTech to understand the impact of the tool but also to create the best experience for teachers and students.
It's kind of my Bible, because it's like 30 tools that you can use to collect data and to improve the way you design your learning experience. The second thing is the EdTech network. So I think when we found EdTech France, it really helped us in many ways to understand the market, to understand the ecosystem, to meet new people. And to really understand that we needed to do something in Belgium too. But yes, EdTech France was a really good resource for us.
When we found EdTech France, it really helped us in many ways to understand the market, to understand the ecosystem, to meet new people. And to really understand that we needed to do something in Belgium too.
Frank Albert Coates
And I've heard that there is something being started up in Belgium as well?
Robin Guerit
Yeah, it's really the beginning. It started in May, this year, and it's called EdTech Station. And basically, it’s a network that's going to be big in Belgium, because it's going to be the only network that we have between all the Belgian companies and the Belgian institutions. So I hope we can grow that network and share, like we do now, share resources, tips for the next entrepreneur in EdTech.
Frank Albert Coates
And last question. So is there any advice that you would give other EdTech startups based on your experience?
Robin Guerit
I think, and it's linked to what I said, but it's working on the experience and to collect a lot of data on what you do at the end. So it's not only data from marketing and the acquisition cycles, not at that moment, but at the end, when people are using your tool is really to understand the learning context. And there are a lot of things to do; not only to track the numbers and the number of signups, but it's to meet people, it is to interview students, interviews teachers, and everyone that is linked to your product.
…working on the experience and to collect a lot of data on what you do at the end. So it's not only data from marketing and the acquisition cycles, not at that moment, but at the end, when people are using your tool is really to understand the learning context. And there are a lot of things to do; not only to track the numbers and the number of signups, but it's to meet people, it is to interview students, interviews teachers, and everyone that is linked to your product.
So that's mainly what we do at Flowchase that we collect a lot of data. We have questionnaires that we give during our onboarding process. But also after two months, after six months, we give them a standard questionnaire. So we collect the same data, but from a lot of people. And usually we have the chance to work with teachers, so they do it in class with the students. So that's why at the end, we have a lot of data. It really helps us to understand better how they learn, but also what are their goals and how we could improve the tools for them. So it's definitely working more on the final user.
Every month, I say, you need to do something to meet at least 5 or 15 users that use your tool. It could be an interview, could be a questionnaire. Could be to go meet them in person. It's things like that you can find the tools to do quickly and it's these things I think you need to do at the very beginning and continue to do when growing the company.
Every month, I say, you need to do something to meet at least 5 or 15 users that use your tool. It could be an interview, could be a questionnaire. Could be to go meet them in person. It's things like that you can find the tools to do quickly and it's these things I think you need to do at the very beginning and continue to do when growing the company.
