Lack of experience can be a superpower to dare taking risks as an entrepreneur
Guest: Jack Daly, founder of 8BitCADE & STEM studio, based in the UK. 8bitcade makes fun, DYI, game consoles to teach STEM topics. They offer their services in the K12 segment in a B2C model.
Frank Albert Coates
Thanks for joining us today Jack. We heard your story as you joined EdTech Garage and thought it would be a really good idea to get you on the show. The first thing that struck me when I spoke to you was that you're just about to graduate from from school. You're 18 years old?
Jack Daly
Yes, that's correct. So I've been doing this for about two years now. And it's been interesting. I've got one month left, and then I graduate, and then I'll be doing it full time. So I'm looking forward to that.
Frank Albert Coates
Let's dive into it. Tell me a bit more about 8BitCADE and also what stage your company is in right now.
Jack Daly
8BitCADE makes DIY game consoles, really just focused on STEM and teaching STEM in a fun way and a practical way. And STEM Studio links really well, because STEM studio is focused on bringing those hardware kits, for example 8BitCADE, through partner companies who do similar products, together with an e-learning platform where we combine hardware tools, such as the DIY kits and software tools, such as fun mini games. If you've ever used Duolingo, it's something similar to that, just to engage the learner and have a strong educational curriculum behind it.
Regarding what stage we're at, STEM studio is currently at pre-seed funding. We've raised half a million euros in funding. And 8BitCADE is just plopping along - we have a private investor onboard, but that's really just to boost our stock and get us ready for that Q4 rush.
Frank Albert Coates
Exciting. So lots of great things coming ahead. And if we want to take take a few steps back, how come you ended up in EdTech and specifically in the STEM space?
Jack Daly
So for me being a student, that was a big thing, it was kind of born out of frustration. When I was at school, I actually took design technology, so a lot of STEM subjects. And I was too busy, watching PowerPoints, and the teachers were just talking at me. I wasn't actually getting my hands dirty and doing a lot of practical stuff. It was interesting, but not for me. It wasn't the way I liked to learn. So for me, the reason I got into EdTech, surprisingly, was purely out of frustration.
So for me, the reason I got into EdTech, surprisingly, was purely out of frustration.
It was boring. And it was very death by PowerPoint, if you like, and that's where 8bitcade was born. It was a bit of both; my father actually said, Jack, you're not a real designer until you've sold a product. And I was like, great, I want to sell a product. And at that same time, I was really frustrated at how STEM was taught, and that kind of collided into 8bitcade. And yeah, that came together into a company. And I just learnt the rest along the way.
Frank Albert Coates
Tell me a bit more about the STEM field itself. Over the last couple of years lots of projects have been evolving in this space. And it's increasingly being looked at both from schools and educators across the world. How do you see the field evolving?
Jack Daly
Schools have always been quite delayed; they're about five years behind where we are as consumers, so consumers are a little bit more open to it.
Schools have always been quite delayed; they're about five years behind where we are as consumers…
They're actively searching for more advanced projects, which is why 8bitcade is where it is, but hopefully in the future schools will be a lot more open to teaching electronics as well as software based languages and things like that. So definitely growing. You can see all the stats online; we're lacking loads of electrical engineers and software engineers. I chose to have the niche in hardware programming and hardware development purely because you've got a ton of resources for the software side like Code Academy, but not much for the hardware side. And you know software requires hardware. So that's why I chose to go there. And I enjoyed it.
Frank Albert Coates
And is there something particular that you would want to push in terms of skills when you're looking at the STEM space? Is it more on the creativity side, is it more on the critical thinking side? Or is it just of it combined, that makes you want to do this project?
Jack Daly
One of my inspirations is James Dyson, he was an inventor, but now he's a really big famous founder or owner of a business if you like. And the thing I like about him is that he was a an engineer turned successful entrepreneur kind of thing. And so that's what I want to push; I want CEOs of STEM companies, or at least design or engineering companies to be an engineer or designer, rather than a business person, because at the end of the day, what better person to lead the company than the person who made the product. And that's, you know, why I like to get hands on and actually make the products that we have at 8bitcade and STEM studio. And you could argue, I'm very R&D focused, I'm not a fan of marketing, I prefer to make a good product that sells itself.
I'm not a fan of marketing, I prefer to make a good product that sells itself.
So if I could teach anything, it would be practical STEM and also some business skills and how to bring that to market and manufacturing, production. So a lot more practical skills in that sense.
Frank Albert Coates
And when you think about the company, that you have started and that you're about to grow; what will make you succeed? And what's your secret sauce?
Jack Daly
I'd like to think that's two things. One is the frustration. So as a founder, I'm frustrated every night, I'm like, I can do more, there's more features, I want to add more of this more of that. But also, the frustration has led to a big ambition, to take on the educational sector and change it and create my own alternative curriculum.
The frustration has led to a big ambition, to take on the educational sector and change it and create my own alternative curriculum.
Like I mentioned, to get kids more into thinking of practical sides, R&D, manufacturing, production, engineering. The more intense sides that they don't teach you at school and how to actually source components and those sort of technical aspects that you only really get and I only really learned from actually doing 8bitcade. And I like to think the second secret sauce is agility. We're still in the early phase of the startup me being a founder, we can move and change to trends. Because at the end of the day, kids love cool things, they like fun things, and cool things generally align with changing trends. So with DIY kits, getting kids into STEM, they want to do something that's cool and fun, which is why game consoles are perfect. But, at the end of the day, not everyone likes game consoles. Some people prefer sound design or robotics or something like that. So everyone has a different perspective and different likes. And that's where STEM studio comes in partnering with all these different companies to provide a wide range of DIY kits that can get anyone involved in STEM. And bringing it back into agility, being so quick, we can respond quickly to create a product, test it, evaluate it and put it straight to market and get those kids involved with it.
…agility, being so quick, we can respond quickly to create a product, test it, evaluate it and put it straight to market…
Regarding where I've applied agility, I would mention Level up, which we did last Christmas. I actually manufactured that in a month, which was very intense, I was doing my exams as well. It's nice to think that we went from prototype to a batch of I think 300 or 250, in just a month given COVID. And when we did the first XL that was manufactured in three months, so the lead time has come down, which is nice. We're adaptable now like that. And we can respond better than maybe the big companies who move a lot slower.
Frank Albert Coates
You mentioned actually a couple in terms of challenges. Is there one main challenge that sticks with you since you started the company? And if you could talk a bit about how you solved it.
Jack Daly
My biggest challenge could be due to my age or lack of experience.
My biggest challenge could be due to my age or lack of experience.
I started this when I was around 16. And I was also balancing it with school. So for me Time Management was a challenge definitely. Making sure I was achieving decent grades, high grade. I've been quite lucky that I have supportive parents that have pushed me academically both in and outside of school, making sure I put in enough time and effort to school as I do with my startups - it definitely wasn't easy! So balancing both achieving high grades while also pushing 8bitcade and STEM studio to the limit, getting the most out of the team and basically keeping the company creative and keeping us innovative. And because of me being so young, when you look at someone's LinkedIn, it says 10 plus years of industry knowledge, I didn't have 10 plus years of industry knowledge. So for me, manufacturing, production, leading a software team, leadership skills, these are all things that I just did not have and I did not have enough time to develop. And so for me, that's why, secret sauce agility, and ability to learn quickly. My biggest challenge was when I didn't know something, my solution was let's just learn it, let's just push ourselves.
…when I didn't know something, my solution was let's just learn it, let's just push ourselves.
And at the end of the day, that's why I also like to say frustration, because there was a lot of boring stuff, doing accountant - not a fan of that. And the more admin side, but due to that frustration of me really wanting to empower kids and making my own curriculum, and teaching STEM essentially, that forced me to put in the hours and learn how to file tax and things like that.
Frank Albert Coates
And I would probably say that both the time management piece and industry knowledge is similar challenges that founders will have in any sector and age. So some have a lot of industry experience, but some just have the passion like you have. And that's the case a lot in the EdTech field, where perhaps you've been in there as a teacher, or you just have a passion for education and you want to make a difference.
If you look forwards in the next 6 to 12 months, what's keeping you up at night?
Jack Daly
That's quite short term. I'd say for us, it'd be STEM studio. What keeps me up at night, gladly, is basically thinking of what I want the platform to be, how I want it to act, how we want it to impact children's lives and things like that. And just the idea of managing the team. I love the idea of just sitting down in a room of creatives, and just working on something that is super awesome. But, what's keeping me up at night is the pre-seed funding round. We met what we call a shoestring or shoelace goal. So basically the bare minimum. We can reach the MVP in about a year, two years. We have an ambitious goal of a million. So we're halfway there. But that's what's keeping me up at night knowing that it's gonna take a little bit longer. Not as agile as I want to be. But, also just thinking of different strategies and ways to increase my network. Being a small fish like myself, in a large pond, it's finding good strategies to increase that network and get the funding.
Being a small fish like myself, in a large pond, it's finding good strategies to increase that network and get the funding.
And also just learn because it's very technical. You know, you have to look at governmental rules in the UK, and just reaching out to new founders and networking. EdTech Garage has been a great way for me to network actually talking to the founders. And when you talk to one founder, they know three other founders, and it just starts this tree of talking to this person and this person.
Frank Albert Coates
And I wanted to dive into this funding piece. What are your learnings from the funding round that you can already share with other founders?
Jack Daly
The thing I learned most is to talk to founders rather than investors, because investors is a different experience. And what I'm experiencing is being a founder, so talking to other founders who have also got pre-seed funding that helped a bunch because they gave insider knowledge. For example, when I talked to Alex Tep, he was a great person to talk to. And he gave me some really good insight and knowledge into regards to what it's like to work with a VC, what it's like to work with Angel investors and things like that. Sort of those handy tips that you just wouldn't get reading a textbook or reading online forums. But, also through networking and having those meetings and learning from that you obviously increase your network. That's sort of the tips I would give. Don't be afraid to ask. Then don't be afraid to meet new founders. If your time is spent in meetings it might not be fun. I mean, for myself, I do love meeting new people, but also love being in the workshop making new products, which is quite a self isolated activity. So they're very contrasting, but I enjoy it. So it's completely fine. That's my advice; just network and talk to the founders rather than investors. Get that insight and knowledge because they've gone through the same process.
That's my advice; just network and talk to the founders rather than investors. Get that insight and knowledge because they've gone through the same process.
Frank Albert Coates
And back to what's keeping you up at night. You said 6 to 12 months is a short time period; what's keeping you up at night for the next 3 to 5 years? Like, what is your vision?
Jack Daly
I'd love for STEM studio to be the epicenter of STEM, because we want to basically push software tools and hardware tools. So it's nice to have that combo. And be almost like, when you think of learning languages, you think of Duolingo. The reason why I'm talking about Duolingo a lot is because I've just started learning French, interestingly enough, and I got Duolingo. And I was like, oh, this is brilliant. There's some really nice aspects of Duolingo like the gamification, that we also decided to push in STEM studio. And we also did push this without me even knowing it at 8BitCADE, making game consoles. So it's nice to see maybe 3 to 4 years in the future, when you think STEM think STEM studio, but also to be that alternative curriculum that can be heavily embedded into schools. If you're familiar with degree apprenticeships, this is what I'm going towards with regarding STEM. So degree apprenticeships is what I prefer, post K12 or as an alternative to university. It's basically where you work at a company, and you do your degree part time on the side. And the reason I like it is because you get industry experience, you work with physical products. In school the teachers don't really say no, they don't say something's bad. But, when you're out in the real world, and you're making products, the customer just says no, I don't like it or yes, I do like it vice versa for investors as well.
3 to 4 years in the future, when you think STEM think STEM studio…degree apprenticeships, this is what I'm going towards with regarding STEM… because you get industry experience, you work with physical products. In school the teachers don't really say no, they don't say something's bad. But, when you're out in the real world, and you're making products, the customer just says no, I don't like it or yes, I do like it vice versa for investors as well.
And so I'm tailoring STEM studios experience similar to doing a degree apprenticeship, where the degree is the STEM studio degree, or the curriculum we have online where you go on the app, and you can complete interactive tasks. And then the apprenticeship is where you get the kits, and you build the kits, and you're making products. I do think 3 to 4 years in the future, I want to work more with fabrication companies. I want to get kids not just making a kit. I want them to be making the PCB so then essentially making the kits, because what I've realized that I learned the most from is actually making the game console, the product, rather than buying a premade kit. So being on the other end of the 8BitCADE, the person who actually made the 8BitCADE, rather than the customer who's making the 8BitCADE. This does not mean I am saying our products are bad. No, I don't mean that. There is some value doing the game console, because you learn the standard stuff, the basic stuff. But, if you really want to get advanced, you really want to be a practical designer, and you want to learn about production, manufacturing, how to read data sheets, things like that, then you need to build a product. And that's kind of the stuff I want to teach at STEM studio; use my last two years of experience, and have it like a two year degree where you go online and you can complete the task. We have partnered with some of the best PCB companies in China or fulfillment centers just to make it that much easier and more openly available. Because there are some great founders who have great ideas, but they're just too scared to go and do it.
…there are some great founders who have great ideas, but they're just too scared to go and do it.
And it's just too difficult to build hardware projects and run hardware startups. Whereas on the contrary, software startups are a little bit easier, although we'll soon find out with STEM studio.
So, essentially helping founders who want to go deeper into hardware, making it easier for them. But, with a focus on the younger kids. When I mentioned having on LinkedIn 10+ years of experience, I actually think that it has its positives, but it also has its negatives. I was much more inclined to take risks than maybe someone who had experience.
I was much more inclined to take risks than maybe someone who had experience.
For Level up, there would be no way somebody could manufacture that in a month. Whereas I just thought I got no idea, let's just do it and try and learn from the failures and move on. I'm a lot more ready to fail, because I got nothing to lose, I'm much younger, and I didn't really understand it enough. But, whereas someone with experience, their experience limits them in a way. What's interesting is when I talk to my DT teachers and I asked them, how do I do a certain thing, and they're like, use this machine or use this method. And they're not proud. They're not open to looking at other methods, because they've got that easy way of doing it that they've done through learning experience. They're not open to new things. And that's why also when you look at James Dyson, he's very inclined to hiring undergrads and people with lack of experience purely because they're just more risk takers and more open. They're young. I'm not saying age is the thing, but it's more with youthful inexperience.
Frank Albert Coates
Lastly, is there any more generic advice you would want to give to other EdTech startups and founders based on your experience?
Jack Daly
I would like to aim my advice towards the younger people or the people who are scared to start, or maybe scared to continue even. Maybe you're intimidated, because all these people have a lot of experience. I remember when I was in my first meeting with RadioShack, one of the first distributing partners we worked with, they were using a ton of business terms. What does MVP mean, what does this mean? Realizing that they are just words that mean things and you don't really have to use the acronym. Why are you using them? Essentially, a lack of experience can be a superpower, to go ahead and take those risks.
…lack of experience can be a superpower, to go ahead and take those risks.
And it shouldn't be frowned upon, it should really just be pushed, and at the end of the day, don't give up. That would be my advice. And to focus on product as well. I would like to push that a lot more; focus on product rather than making a bad product and then marketing it heavily. Rather focus on a good product; focus on doing a lot of testing with the customer.
…focus on product rather than making a bad product and then marketing it heavily. Rather focus on a good product; focus on doing a lot of testing with the customer.
If anything, I almost wish every entrepreneur was a designer, because at the end of the day, the things we learn as a designer, the design process, is very similar to what an entrepreneur should be going through. Every month doing tests. If you do want to look into a company that does that well, Dyson and Duolingo do that really well. Duolingo does a bunch of tests. I'm surprised when I go to the browser version of Duolingo and my mobile app and vs iOS, they're completely different versions. And it's just nice to see that there testing and how I respond to those things. And it's just data driven decisions. I love it.
Frank Albert Coates
Fascinating. Thank you so much, Jack. I've really enjoyed talking to you on the show. Thanks for sharing your story and good luck for your next steps and for closing your rounds.
Jack Daly
Awesome. I appreciate that. It's been a pleasure. Thank you.
